I know I mentioned this briefly in the update to my previous post, but it still irks me, so I thought I’d bring it up again.
Back on July 3rd I put a comment up on the blog of the “Spend Your Way to Wealth” guys, Smith & Merritt—specifically on their post about Payday loan places. By July 5th my comment had been removed. Admittedly, of course, it’s their prerogative to decide what can and can’t be up on their blog, but consider what they say in this post:
Feel free to play rough and tumble, challenge us, ask us questions. All we ask is you keep it polite. No foul language or rudeness. We love a good dialogue and we love explaining why we believe the way we do. Still, we do reserve the right to edit posts if we determine them to be offensive.They apparently have an unreasonably broad definition for the term “offensive” (as well as “edit”). I certainly didn’t use any foul language. Nor was I rude—unless they define “rude” as any disagreement with them. Unfortunately I did not save a copy of exactly what I wrote, but here is the gist of it:
Payday loan places may be a “scourge,” but how will making them illegal be helpful to their typical customer? Reducing a person’s available options seems rather likely to hurt them, instead.It was something like that, anyway. Does that seem rude or offensive to you? If not, then why do you suppose they removed the comment?
If you truly believe that these businesses are overcharging their customers, then this suggests a profit opportunity. Why not set up a competitive shop in the neighborhoods where you find these places and then undercut them? I suspect, though, that their near-ubiquity means that they are already quite competitive with one-another, and are thus already charging the lowest price the market will bear. This means that making them illegal will almost certainly result in making credit even more expensive for the very people you are complaining are already being overcharged! How is what you suggest, then, going to be helpful?
Subsequent to the deletion of my first comment I wrote a second one expressing my disappointment at what I saw as cowardice on their part. Not surprisingly, that one was also quickly removed. Could it be that Smith & Merritt have no room for gray areas when it comes to debt? Unfortunately, if you are faced with a situation where you have to choose between spending an extra $50 or having your electricity shut off for 2 weeks, then sticking your head in the sand, as Smith & Merritt would apparently counsel you to do, isn’t going to help.
244 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 244 of 244I read the post Ben put up, there is SOME truth... some. I'm not sure who he is, but to shed some light, the decline of Acentus/Smith and Merritt started WAY before College Partnership came into the picture. It seems that he is portraying that it was CP's fault that Acentus became what it did. It was many other poor decisions made prior.
Understood. As Jim pointed out a few weeks back, given all the finger-pointing and lack of owning up, it seems there's plenty of blame to go around.
That press release does nothing to change any of that, either.
Agreed. The finger pointing will continue. If you're en ex-employee or anyone that is owed money for that matter, going through Dan or Kathryn you'll get "College Partnership is responsible for lost wages and refunds" so much so that they even send out letters stating the same. It just kills me that one of the biggest aspects of management that Dan and Kathryn taught was to learn to turn your finger around and point it right back at yourself, but when it comes to them personally.... I dont think they could point any further away. So much for "Practice what you preach"
think everyone should go to yahoo finance and read up on CP and SMI. "No officers of CP have any responsility for Acentus, SMI, nor have they acted as its officers..." as you continue to read through the info, CP does not owe any of SMI clients any money. like someone mentioned before, different services. ~~I am really sorry to hear about all of you out there that have not been paid for months, you can file a claim through your state and they will take SMI to court for any unpaid wages. i know we have all heard stories to pass around, when it comes down to it, Dan and Kathryn took your money. They are in fact living in $400,000 homes on golf courses, driving pimpin vehicles and using their families, fathers, cousins, etc. to continue to chase paper in other cities around the US. Think this all through... DING! light come on yet??? who signed you up, who took your money, SMI. PEACE OUT PEOPLE!
I have read each and every comment written and would like to respond in defense of Kathryn Merritt. I am a relative of Kathryn's and I just want to say that Kathryn is a loving and devoted wife, mother, and businesswomen. I can tell each of you that I know for a fact that Kathryn Merritt is not the sort of person who would commit the acts you are accusing her of in this blog. She has devoted her time and efforts to her company and as said before her family has went without so her employees could be taken care of. In time it will be seen who the real culprits are and hopefully all monies will be returned. It is my hope Kathryn and her family can remain strong through these tough times and the truth will come to light.
If what you say about your relative is true, ask her to post here and tell us her version of the story. I think anyone who lost $10 K deserves at least this from her.
But I think she is living in comfort and driving a fat cat car, while everyone waiting on refunds suffers. Not such a christian/mormon/whatever spiritual-ist way to live, is it?
Until I learn otherwise, S + M are nothing less than two faced crooks... and totally LAME
Glad I found this site...I'm an "insider"...wow! so much to write about, don't know where to start...I'll be brief, then explain in future comments as it is late and I need to get up early to go to work on Saturday to help pay for the more then $7,000 that S&M still owes me...
1) I was a former employee long enough to rise to levels of "insidership".
2) You don't hear from "us" because of impending litigation. That tends to make most silent.
3)(sorry, relatives) Dan and Kathryn were wonderful human beings to the public, but I got to see them behind closed doors. You will hear enough (in court) from so many, even relatives will find it hard to continue to believe in their innocense.
4) CP is just as dirty and won't be long they will go under.
5)Jeff Nielson does NOT have a southern accent, he puts that on for "sales" to southerners.
5)Integity is a S&M "twin". Almost exact word for word sales script, prices and coaching (although, not by the same bunch from California, just the same material)....O,K>, they don't have Dan & K...picky , picky...
6) there are several wonderful ways to get your refunds.. but that will have to wait, it's late and I will try to write tomorrow...
Okay, I'm back, but only for a few minutes...Where was I?...Refunds
So,some background first.
The financial coaching S&M offered for the most part DID work...That is, IF the people worked the program. And I'm not talking about the ones who bought the program since July or August of 2006. Every thing was such a mess since then, many did NOT receive the services they were promised.
In spite of the mess D&K made here, the product is serving a purpose...(maybe like your argument for the payday loan companies). They fill the void Licensed Financial companies don't do. Most Licensed companies cater to the wealthy, leaving the middle class believing they can't afford help. So the middle class simply wander toward Social Security.
So, to quickly explain financial coaching: The coaches start by freeing up cash in a budget. most people get a tax refund at the end of the year of $2500 to $5000. That's $200 to $400 per month better put now on high interest credit cards. Then coach will call their credit card companies to help negotiate a reduced (or 0% for 1 year) interest rate. 4 cards with $4,000 average would save another $200 per month. Looking at other spending such as premium cable channels, eating out lunches, etc., often finds another $100 to $200. A coach can usually find $400 to $800 per month. That money is applied to the highest interest debt.. If that payment was $150, it's now added to the "freed up" $600, and a $4,000 balance is paid off in 5 months (instead of 3 years.) Then that $750 payment is added to the next highest interest debt(say another card of $150) and a payment of $900 pays that debt off in 4 months and so on until all the debts are gone , usually in 1.5 to 2 years(except the house). Then the entire (say $1650 with a car payment) is now added to a house payment of $1500,the house is usually paid off in 5 years. Then the $3150 is put into a retirement fund and in 10 years, its possible to have over $500,000.
The coach also works to help set up a home based business, tax savings(using Sandy Botkin's methods...and he's really good...look him up), and asset protection.
So, is it worth $10,000? Absolutely.
Before coming to S&M, I was a partner in several companies and I estimated we paid out over $25,000 for Tax and asset protection services alone.
Many of the employees had bought the program and privately could have steered co-workers and friends away, but instead HIGHLY RECOMMENDED it, even bringing FAMILY members into a program. (people won't do that to their family, if a program doesn't work.)
Well, here's the problem...the ASSET PROTECTION works so well, and DAN and KATHRYN USED IT TOO...They have their personal assets so locked up that nobody, not even a judge, will get any money out of them. It's the same reason O.J. Simpson kept all his millions, even though he lost the civil suit. Great asset protection is bullet proof. The worse you can do to the two of them is make them pay attorney fees. and maybe some criminal charges...but this will be a first offense...most likely NO JAIL TIME...Sorry, all those out there that want a piece of them, you won't get much.
Not that I think we should let them get away with it...we should find them where ever they go. These two are very charismatic, easily liked...they can start companies in a heartbeat...win over investors, bring in employees...but if we are there to tell the truth, perhaps they won't do this to others. (they are doing it right now...and no one seems to care)
We need to form a group dedicated to investigating their every move, and stopping them from duplicating again.
And, by the way. If you understand Corporate law, when D&K sold their company to CP, they no longer had ANY authority...they became JUST STOCKHOLDERS....Clark was the only one with authority. S&M became the "Financial Division" of CP. The Board took over. there were certain projections of sales volume that D&K were certain we would achieve. when that failed to happen, CP gave a limited budget and said more would come ONLY if our division could "win" over some investors. D&K "wined & dined" these investors for several months...met with them at our office, warned all the employees to be on their best behavior and to clean up when they would visit. We ran out of money and CP refused to give anymore. Payroll checks stopped for 3 weeks. Then some payroll was given from sales made. Eventually, we were told one investor came through and about 1/2 of unpaid payroll was paid. Any employees that had quit, never got their last 2 or 3 checks.
But everything was authorized and controlled by CP, including if money was alloted or not for refunds.
So, back to refunds...
If you bought your program after DEC.,2006 YOUR BEST CASE IS TO GO WHERE THE RESPONSIBILITY AND THE MONEY IS. I also think that anyone who's coaching got stopped due to CP closing down the program, is also due at least a partial refund from CP.
By the way, Daisy...Who are you? Do you work for CP? Why are you so adamant about getting people off CP's trail? (Things that make you say Hmmmm)
More tommorow...
Jacka-1,
Thanks very much for your posts, here. They've been extremely informative, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates your time. I am looking forward to your next installment, as well.
It's interesting that you consider the debt-reduction and cost-of-living strategy you've outlined to be worth $10,000, when various forms of it are available for free in countless places on the web. I even link to one such from this post on this blog.
Sure, people can still come out ahead after paying $10,000 for that advice, and obviously people have gotten away with charging that much. In fact, I'll defend the right of anyone to charge $10,000 for a pack of gum, if they want to - and more power to them if they manage to find a willing buyer - but that's not going to stop me from pointing out the packs available for 33 cents at the grocery store.
Einzige,
There's far more to Financial Coaching then "debt-reduction and cost-of-living strategies" found free on the internet.
But before I go into that, let me say something about the "free" link you gave above.
The author, in describing how to accelerate the debt pay off says:
"Follow the Debt Elimination Plan and eliminate your debt by adding 10% of your (gross) income to your minimum monthly payments.For example: if your (gross) income is $3,000 and your minimum monthly payments total $1,200, you would now pay $1,500. The $1,200 minimum monthly payment plus the $300 representing the 10% of your gross income."
He never tells the MOST critical detail. Remember, many of these people are DEEPLY in debt, often facing possible foreclosure on a house, having heated arguments with a spouse about their differences about money, working long hours or 2 jobs to bring in extra income, getting constant calls from bill collectors, having their electricity and phones turned off and paying service charges and late fees to turn them back on,... and I could go on and on with what I've learned about the state of American households...
But he never tells them HOW to come up with the $300 to start the program. He just says "come up with it"...ya, right.. Most of these people would laugh if you ask them to come up with an extra $30.
But, if coaching only gave, as you said, "debt-reduction and cost-of-living strategies", as pure information, you'd be right, not worth $10,000...but it does a lot more.
Do you think everything about getting someone to "financial security" is only information? ...just words?..things on paper?...just logical things?
Do some people look at money differently then then others?
Is everybody a "Do-it-yourselfer" or do some learn better when someone takes them by the hand and shows them exactly how to do it?
Working at S&M(or CP at the end), we did a free consultation, where we talked in depth about a couples finances for about an hour and a half. At the end of our consultations, I would ask a simple question: Can you get there on your own or would you like some help?
If they said they could do it on their own, I wished them well and sent them a written report. If they wanted help, I set an appointment to speak with a director of enrollment.
About 50% said they could do it on their own...the other 50% said they WANTED help...in fact, we had to ask that question TWICE, just to be sure they WANTED help.
Before S&M went on their own, they had the John Cumutta account. He would send people a big box with books, tapes and cd's. There was lOT'S of INFORMATION in there for people to get their financial lives in order. Do you know how many read the material? MOst told me they took one look at all that and thought, "I don't have time to read all that", and taped it up and sent it right back. These are the type of people that bought coaching.
But coaching does more then "debt-reduction and cost-of-living strategies"...there's tax reduction, reducing between 20 and 50%... with the average taxes of 8000 to 10000, that could pay for the program in 3 years. Plus, as the student moves into higher and higher tax brackets, that knowledge has potential to save hundreds of thousands of dollars and goes on paying back for the rest of their lives.
Then, there is a living will. A trust set up for kids, helping to avoid probate. That has enormous value, just in the fact that it makes the couple actually get around to getting it done.
There's much more, but I'm taking too long here...
I need to add perhaps the most important one: the value of having a personal coach, someone who can go to the heart of MY individual problems, MY personal view of money, MY misguided beliefs handed to me by well meaning , but "not wealthy" parents,...and bring to the table guidance, knowledge, direction, motivation and accountability...and TIME. Even if ALL that were available on the internet for free(and it isn't), I don't have the time to go find it all. AND, it doesn't know ME. I'm an individual...I was taught money by a "penny pinching Scottish" Father who kept a little black book in his pocket of every penny he spent on me ... and I'm married to a wife who comes from a Latin "spend money freely because life is short and should be enjoyed today" background. How do you make that financial disaster work? where do I find help for that on the internet?
And I discovered the opposite views in my marriage was QUITE COMMON.
That's why coaching is growing and will continue to grow. America is simply rewarding people who saw a NEED and are filling it. Too bad there are people like D&K to come in and make a mess of things for a while...and turn good people like you off of it.
Sorry, I didn't mean to go on about coaching. I've just seen family and friends heavily weighed down by debt, fighting...children suffering...divorce...
and then I've heard at the end of MANY of my financial consultations, couples who were exact opposites (similar to me & my wife) say at the end, " that's the best talk about finances we've had in our entire life."
And I'm not even a coach! That's the value of the humane touch...no internet,or book can give that.
What we need,is a way to lower the cost of good coaching, identify the scum, prosecute them, and promote the legitimate ones. I have ideas on how to do that, but that will have to wait for another discussion.
Jacka-1,
You make a good case in favor of coaching services. However, in fairness to John Burley and his advice (Wow! I never could have imagined I'd be defending him), he deals with your "most critical detail" in his various other products, all of which cost less than $10K.
To Jacka 1,
first of all, the coaching and program are not worth $10K maybe $300.
2. The reason 50% said they need help with their finances is because of all the promises made by the reps.
3. They dont help you start a business. They dont even know which one or any recommendations. unlike the reps that promised we will get you a home based business. The business they tell you in coaching is either mlm or ebay, or some other scam they are associated with.
4. They overpromised and delivered nothing but a scripted brainwashing scheme think positive watch the secret read more and think Abundant. all crap and I fell for it hard.
final, I cant believe that in todays times that a fellow AMERICAN would RIPPOFF other FELLOW AMERICANS. S& M are crooks and we will GET THEM>
Why it's relevant that they're "fellow Americans" is lost on me (and I can't abide the collectivist undertones in such a sentiment), but I can certainly appreciate the rest of your comment.
How do I get involved in the lawsuit against dear DAN and dear KATHRYN??
"Proud american" clearly you are misinformed of what coaching really is and about. Are there some sales people that over promise what coaching just to get the sale? Aboslutely! I have worked on multiple coaching sales floors (Including Acentus/SMI) and have heard many of my fellow cubicle-mates promising things WAY beyond the coaches capability. That is not the fault of the coaches or financial coaching. Coaching in itself is a wonderful thing, IF the person who enrolls does everything on their end as well. Its the same principle as going to college, its education, which is worthless if you dont execute what you are taught. All of the negativity on this blog is starting to make me laugh, "Solution 95", tell me, what is getting envolved in the lawsuit going to do for you other than get you aggrivated and frustrated when you could be concentrating on aspects of your life which you CAN control. There are so many people envolved in it already, one more person is NOT going to do anything. Technically, I am owed upwards around $7,000, am I moaning about it? No. Do I want to take leagl action? No. Why? Because all of that negative energy I could spend on that, I rather spend some positive energy on my new career, family, etc. Moral is~ Sh*t happens, you can fail because of it or succeed inspite of it.
There's that loaded word again - "negativity."
It's a handy word when you want to avoid discussing anything substantive, such as errors or omissions of facts or logic.
I'm not trying to avoid anything. Want to talk about facts? Lets talk about facts. I probably know more about this situation than most on this blog. The point is, it is so much easier pointing fingers at everyone else rather than swallowing hard and moving on. Thats the society we live in, it's the blame game. I've been burned by what happened, and I know it would be pointless to go on an endless rampage trying to blame and file lawsuits, blah blah.
So, after more than 3 weeks of waiting and waiting, I finally got a big packet in the mail yesterday containing a bunch of the court documents for the CPI/Acentus lawsuit in Colorado.
The case is already over, so all the info is not very timely.
Are people still interested in reading summaries of the various complaints, etc.?
Absolutely! Post everything you can about the court case, get people closure, and move on!
Yes, please. Thank you for getting the paperwork!
Okay. I'll put up what I can, but it's going to have to be in a few days, as I'm going to be terribly busy having fun this weekend.
"Proud American"'
I'm assuming you bought a "program" from S&M. What date did you sign up? How many sessions did you go through?
One of the major benefits of good coaching is the accountability aspect. Yeah, most of us are smart enough to read about what we should do to get on track financially, on the internet or elsewhere, but operationalizing it may be a different matter. If I don't know the finer points about getting it done and I know that I may not follow through and make the right decisions along the way, then don't diss me because I recognize I need some support to get there. The accountability you have with a good coach can get you over the hump, face squarely and honestly the very problems that got you into a fix in the first place,and support better thinking, planning, and decision-making in the future. If you don't practice something enough, it doesn't become habit.
A good coach can be there just often enough (and mine was) to help make those corrections in thinking, strategy, or actions, to avoid setbacks. I was lucky enough to have coaches with integrity and vision who were providing me guidance in making significant changes, and I trusted them. Unfortunately, I only got 4 months worth before the plug was pulled.
Financial coaching isn't something everyone needs, but that doesn't mean it is a bad thing for those of us who can benefit from it. It is more than sad that this venture went wrong, but it doesn't make the concept bad. It can alter someone's future if it is done right (or for the worse if done poorly as we know). I agree we need to move on, but there is no reason we should not be asking for accountability from the other side.
Couldn't agree more with the comment above. For all of the people arguing on here that 5-10k is not worth it for coaching, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Even if coaching gets someone out of debt 10 years sooner, thats worth it. If it shows them some simple tax strategies to put them in the 15% bracket, rather than the 28%, thats worth it. Or shows them how to diversify their investment accounts to get a 12% return, instead of 4-6%, thats worth it. ASIDE from the accountability you get with a coach. We all know the knowledge to do these things on our own is out there. Right now there are over 6000 books and tape series in print on how to get out of debt and on your way to financial freedom, most printed in the last 12 years. The information is all around us, but why is it that most people still have debt? Or wont be able to retire by 65 and have to become Wal-Mart greeters? Becasue we just plain and simple lack the dicipline to do what it takes to make it hapen. That is where a coach can truly be a life changing aspect.
"jacka 1"
I signed up 11/21/2006 and received about 5-6 coaching sessions. I realized that there was no value or information from the things being said at the sessions. Then the company merges and leaves me $10k in debt and no light at the end of this tunnel.
Then there are those of us who have received nothing. I signed up February 2007, decided within 48 hours that we had made the wrong decision and cancelled within the 72 hours allowed by law. And they have not returned my money.
Just to let everyone know, I sent letters to John Grace & Janice Jones of CP to let them know why I thought they were "on the hook" for my refund. For those of you that don't know or haven't followed everything on this blog, when I was solicited, it was done by a representative who identified himself as calling from College Partnership regarding their new financial division Smith & Merritt. That's the first indication the two companies were/are related. Then, at some point, the Abundance website had a CP logo on the header. When you look up CP on the BBB website, it shows them as having dba (doing business as) names of Smith & Merritt, Acentus and others. The apology letter regarding the refund delays from Kathryn Merritt was on CP letterhead. So, for anyone that says CP has nothing to do with this, explain these things.
Well, CP seems to think the same way. All I got back was a non-personal non-signed b****** response that consisted of a copy of their press release/statement from August 7, 2007 that they, for a brief time was a shareholder of SMI, Acentus, etc, they have disclaimed their ownership rights and therefore have no responsibility in the actions of the aforementioned entities. Ha....They may be distancing themselves now, but that does not clear them of any liability of their actions while they were affiliated with SMI.
I also emailed the UTDCP to see if there was any update on their case against SMI & CP. Nothing new to report. They had a hearing last week against all the entities. College Partnership sent an attorney who argued that they were not responsible. The hearing was cut short and will be finished up in a few weeks. The only hope in this matter now is to get money from CPI but all the entities including CPI are now being forced into involuntary bankruptcy by a group of creditors. It may be that those seeking refunds will end up having to file a claim with the bankruptcy court and hope for a share of anything that is there. They will know more after the next hearing after we see how the hearing officer rules.
Well here's the problem, the merge between CP and Acentus was done illegally, and therefore wasn't ever a true merge. So in all reality, CP may, infact, have NO responsibility of Acentus and it's financial liabilities.
Proud American,
Sorry, you bought your program after everything at S&M went to h***.
That's why I said "...and I'm not talking about the ones who bought the program since July or August of 2006. Every thing was such a mess since then, many did NOT receive the services they were promised."
S&M was in a tailspin . Before then, customers who didn't like their coach or stopped their program acually got a refund. I know, because they took the refund from my pay. S&M would hold back 10% of every paycheck for 6 months in case a customer asked for a refund.
One of the indicators that the program was working was that over 90% stayed in the program. My personal refunds were less then 2 in 100.
But understand, to anyone looking for good coaching out there, I believe their are better coaching companies then others. Do some checking first. Pull a report from BBB. Call the local Attorney General. Do an internet search....(I don't recommend "ripp-off reports" -It's a site where a company can pay the site owner large sums of money and have a disclaimer added to any complaints.)
Just understand that anybody can say anything on the internet, so it won't be a place to get accurate information. Many "complaints" are fake and come from a company's competators.
I've thought of a way to help get better information to the public on coaching as well as real estate gurus, internet gurus, etc.
When I was doing research into a real estate guru that was coming to visit my city, I foung 3 or 4 positive things and about 50 negative. As I read all the negative comments, I realized that most of them came fron people who never completed his program. They paid for it, got scared, and tried to get their money back.
Some were in the program a few days, others a few weeks, but the vast majority of complainers were those who didn't complete a program.
How can these really speak out on how good his program is?
They can sound off on the refund policy, but unless you see the program to the end, you can't really say it works or doesn't.
And even then, if you go all the way through, it would take a good interview by a "detective" type to discover a few things...like, are you a person scared of risk? Was there good properties the coach advised you to buy that could have made you money, but you were too scared to buy them? Do you have those addresses of the properties that you didn't buy, to see who did buy them, and see what profits you missed out on? ect, ect.
It's easier to blame the coach when things go wrong, and sometimes the coach IS to blame. But good questions from a neural person can often uncover the truth.
So, I'm going to set up a web-site where only those who have COMPLETED a program can sound off. The coach will be named, too. And, similar to ebay, the coach and company will be able to give a rebuttal and a chance to solve the problem. Also, each student will be interviewed to discover any unusual facts that need to be added to the complaint.
So, einzige, are you rested from the holiday? Where's that info on the lawsuit?
you got in the mail?
This was on the Utah Division of Consumer Protection website: http://www.consumerprotection.utah.gov/
Attn: Consumers who wish to file a claim against Smith and Merritt Institute
Acentus Consulting Group, LLC and College Partnership Inc., have been forced into involuntary bankruptcy through the federal bankruptcy court in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Acentus was the company that made all sales of Smith and Merritt Institute products. College Partnership Inc bought out Acentus and Smith and Merritt in December 2006.
Any consumer who was promised a refund by Smith and Merritt Institute and did not receive it, or who feels they are owed a refund for a canceled coaching program, may file a claim with the bankruptcy court and may be able to recover a portion of those losses if assets are located and taken by the bankruptcy trustee.
To file a claim, go on the Internet to www.utb.uscourts.gov and place your cursor on the “forms” button. Two choices will appear below that button. Click on the “current forms” selection and a page of form listings will appear. Scroll down the page and look on the left column for Proof of Claims B10 (eff. 4-1-2007) and click on that form. The form will appear and can be printed out and then completed by you.
On the top of the form just put the word “Utah” on the line for District. On the second line write, “Acentus Consulting Group and College Partnership Inc”, on the Name of Debtor line. The bankruptcy case number is 07-23465GEC. Then complete the rest of the form as appropriate. Mail the forms to:
Frank E Moss Courthouse
350 South Main St. #310
Salt Lake City UT 84101
Should you have any questions about the bankruptcy or forms, call the court directly at 801-524-6687.
At this point there is no guarantee of what funds may be recovered to be shared among all creditors. The investigation into the companies by this Division is continuing and all effort is being made to resolve consumer complaints.
Well, IF they "find" ANY money, which I doubt,(they left S&M so broke, they left tons of debts, rent and payroll still unpaid...sorry, they are completely broke...(and as for CP, from what I knew from Clark , (CP's CEO), they were just as broke)I'm sure they won't get anything from Dan & Kathryn or CP's owners...they, like O.J. Simpson, will never pay out from their personal Millions. And no judge can touch them, either.
I estimate there are over 4000 customers and employees ripped off by all this (and thats just from S&M...who knows how many more where affected on the CP's side)
What's wrong with all this is, there were SEVERAL people who had made official complaints, both customers and employees, back in the summer of 2006...why did the Labor department and attorney General, etc., take so long to finally get involved? Why did so many have to get burned before action was taken? Why did they let it go on so long? There should be some accountability at the government level.
While that might not get us some money back, it could stop this kind of thing from happening again.
If we don't learn from history, we're doomed to repeat it.
And as best I can tell, D&K are right now repeating it!
Anyone want to stop them?
Jack-A1,
You sure are popular on this site. How would you propose all of us get them?
Are you still working for DK? How long did you work for SMI/Acentus? From what Ive heard in speaking to other SMI employees, not all of the coaches were as knowledgeable as yourself. One employee I spoke with mentioned the “coaches” had a quota to meet or Else! Also, they were told to sort of profile their clients before selling them. (find out race, income level and at times forced to sell to clients that were on welfare) Is that true as well?
DO I STILL WORK FOR D&K?... daisy, are you high on something? What could I have possibly have said to give you that indication? NO...H*** NO.
Although, I wish I were there only as an under cover employee to find a way to turn them in to the authorities. They were breaking laws then, I'm sure they are now. It would just feel GOOD to take apart their new venture.
But daisy, you never told us what YOUR affiliation is to D&K...or CP ..so, what is it?
I wish I had a real good way to "get" D&K.
Have you been watching the O.J. Simpson thing lately on T.V.? If you have, maybe you saw how the Goldmein's attorneys have been dogging O.J., trying to collect on their judgment, but have collected VERY LITTLE at a very BIG EXPENSE.
D&K are protected from most liability by having a corporation. The corporation is bankrupt, so YOU GET NOTHING from it.
If you hire a very good corporate attorney, it's possible to "pierce the corporate veil", which for a GOOD attorney, is not that difficult to do. What that means, is, that D&K would no longer be shielded by the Corporation protection, and could be held PERSONALLY responsible for the outstanding debts.
The problem here, is,much of their personal wealth most likely is in a trust, just like O.J.'s. No judge in the world can touch that. They knew litigation was coming with CP and I wouldn't put it past them to already have put a great deal of money in off shore havens like "the Isle Of Man", where American courts can't confiscate anything.
We could go after anything OUTSIDE a trust, but that might amount to a couple of a hundred thousand...just enough to pay attorney fees.
We could also win FUTURE EARNINGS. But, do you have the time and money to follow them around for the next 12 years to FIND that money? All they have to do is become very clever and not have their company pay them anything, take out LOANS, live on them, and never pay them back...and thats just ONE way...there are hundreds of ways to hide earnings. They said on TV that O.J. has earned over half a million every year, but has cleverly disguised it. D&K will do the same thing.
It's going to be expensive to go after them. If we can find someone who was burned by them who is WEALTHY and will do just because it's the "right thing to do"...then, let's do it!...the problem here, is, most of us burnt, were either heavily in debt and needed coaching or employees,who were not much better off...(get the picture?)
And, no, there was no "quota or else" for coaches. Coaches were in a separate office, in a separate State(California) This former employee was probably referring to the consultants, who did have to get 10 consultations per week. If they didn't, they got a lower commission. Toward the end, they switched to a salary and those who did not get at least 10 consults, were let go.
And NO, we never profiled for RACE...and that's just stupid for anyone to believe we would sell to someone on welfare. We were told to get off the phone with them ASAP, 5 minutes max...you're wasting time...How does anyone on welfare come up with enough credit to get $10,000? Give me a break. Your former employee likes to tell colorful stories.
You know, stupid comments like that and another comment I read (on another blog) that said some former employee saw D&K running a sex ring from their office...those kind of comments really scare me.. when groups of people get the "Mob Mentality". They start stretching the truth a little, then lying some, then entire fabrications...let's drag their names through the mud!..all in the name of "making someone pay". I'd hate to be on trial with a jury made up of some of these.
They deserve to pay. But justice says we must use the TRUTH to convict them. Let's stop the lies.
I worked for Acentus (SMI, US Financial, etc.) they carry different names for various reasons. Was with the company until it became "abundantly" clear that $$$ signs had overtaken what started out to be a good cause with a profitable business plan.
For the individual that said Smith and Merritt are innocent, you must be joking. Company started off with leads (John Cummuta) that were purchased through a company by the name of Prosper Mentoring Group. The company quickly grew. Everyone was happy, everyone was making money, students and clients, and we received a lot of testimony about how the coaching changed peoples financial lives. Good situation.
One day it was like a switch had been flipped and both Smith and Merritt turned into the most greedy, warped people I have met. However they operated under the guise of "Law of Abundance". That term/word by the way is from Dr. Dennis Waitley, they just use it out of conveniance. Smith's head had become so swollen I am surprised he even made it through the office doors. Nice cars, new gigantic homes, lavish trips seemed to be the norm. They started telling employees to, "go out and by that new car. We want you to get in debt. You're going to make a lot of money this year." Obviously this was an homage to the Boiler Room movie and the exact opposite of what we were supposed to be teaching. By the way, most of the "consultants" have no financial background and are basically called setters. That was your consultation. The Director was the closer and the second person you spoke with. Most of these people do such a bad job with their own money that they're relying on that big check.
Sorry about the tangent. News started circulating that we wouldn't be buying these leads from Prosper anymore. I later came to find out that this was due to Smith, Merritt (Acentus) not paying for the leads. The total added up to the tune of 7 figures. Once the news was announced that we wouldn't be doing this anymore, both owners started working on their own book which should have been titled, "Abundance doesn't flow through us, it only flows to our personal bank accounts"
I can't prove it since I wasn't privy to Dan and Kathryn's private conversations, but it is believed that they sold to College Partnership to avoid legal woes from investors, Prosper, and to even make more money. I think they should be sued and thrown in jail. Tricks were used to deny refunds. Boundaries were crossed. Coaching quality deteriorated to the point where anyone was being contracted to coach from a manual.
It wouldn't surprise me to hear that the two are still trying to get money via other people setting up businesses for them. In fact, with their twisted sense of reality and feeling of entitlement, they probably think this was a big conspiracy against them and at some point will be vindicated.
Finally, just saw this release on Yahoo! today:
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/070808/0288189.html
Good luck everyone.
Losing $8k is no fun. I only agreed to look at "the product" for 72 hours because Don Roat sounded so pathetic and it was nearly Christmas, 2006. "The product" was Fed-Exed back to SMI in SLC less than 24 hours from receipt because it was obviously total rubbish. But in the holiday excitement and Gerald Ford's funeral, I ignored a letter from my credit card company about transferring the $8k. As far as I was concerned, "the product" was returned -- end of deal. But no. And now I am out of luck like so many others. It does not help that my husband of 20 years has been unemployed since October, 2005 (yes 2 years) and we have a smart kid in private college. Losing $8k right now hurts.
Kathryn and Dan really have to be stopped before they hurt more people. They are actually playing on at least one other company's good reputation -- Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, and Smith. Notice the similar sound -- Smith . . Merritt . . Merrill . . Smith?
Has anyone contacted MLPFS? Can this be labeled "defamation of character" or "brand compromization"?
Please people, can we get off the band-wagon that College Partnership has no connection or blame in this mess? "Former employee",that web site you posted was just another propaganda attempt by CP to distance themselves from the expensive mess they've got into. And they hope allot of gullible people out there will believe their pile of crap and not come after them.
They COMPLETED a MERGER, signed the deal. The ink dried. They accepted legal responsibility for S&M's obligations. There is no provision for an annulment in corporate law like in marriage.
CP only wanted out when S&M couldn't hit the sales projections D&K had promised them. Rest assured if sales projections had been made, those two would be "in bed" today.
Now CP wants to "claim" D&K defrauded CP and did not disclose everything. Sorry, thats just admitting CP was incompetent and did not do "due diligence" BEFORE the merger. Any idiot for a President knows you take your time examining the other guys books and bank accounts BEFORE the merger because once the contract is signed, "she's all yours, baby"
Now they want all those who were burnt to believe they have no claim.
That's not to say D&K have no BLAME, they just don't have a company left to go after. CP is still there.
Don't believe their smoke and mirrors show.
Attn: Consumers who wish to file a claim against Smith and Merritt Institute
Acentus Consulting Group, LLC and College Partnership Inc., have been forced into involuntary bankruptcy through the federal bankruptcy court in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Acentus was the company that made all sales of Smith and Merritt Institute products. College Partnership Inc bought out Acentus and Smith and Merritt in December 2006.
Any consumer who was promised a refund by Smith and Merritt Institute and did not receive it, or who feels they are owed a refund for a canceled coaching program, may file a claim with the bankruptcy court and may be able to recover a portion of those losses if assets are located and taken by the bankruptcy trustee.
To file a claim, go on the Internet to www.utb.uscourts.gov and place your cursor on the “forms” button. Two choices will appear below that button. Click on the “current forms” selection and a page of form listings will appear. Scroll down the page and look on the left column for Proof of Claims B10 (eff. 4-1-2007) and click on that form. The form will appear and can be printed out and then completed by you.
On the top of the form just put the word “Utah” on the line for District. On the second line write, “Acentus Consulting Group and College Partnership Inc”, on the Name of Debtor line. The bankruptcy case number is 07-23465GEC. Then complete the rest of the form as appropriate. Mail the forms to:
Frank E Moss Courthouse
350 South Main St. #310
Salt Lake City UT 84101
Should you have any questions about the bankruptcy or forms, call the court directly at 801-524-6687.
At this point there is no guarantee of what funds may be recovered to be shared among all creditors. The investigation into the companies by this Division is continuing and all effort is being made to resolve consumer complaints.
Einzige,
Your blog was bracing, illuminating and EXHAUSTING! I, too, am one of those who signed up w/S&M in Aug. 2006 and received only a few sessions (w/Melinda - she really is GREAT). The sessions were stopped - TWICE - based on the companies internal upheaval(s). By the time the sessions were supposed to start again, the whole coaching staff was different, the sense of support and caring we had with our former coach was GONE, and we could definitely sense that the organization (CP, SMI, whatEVER) was posturing itself for an adversarial conflict of desires (theirs vs. ours).
We were originally told that we would have the right to discontinue our counseling sessions, since all the players had been changed. We strongly expressed our wish to terminate our contract (speaking of which, did anyone get an actual contract? I've got nuthin' and I don't remember ever getting an actual contract. If someone has a generic one, let me know. Maybe you can fax it to me or something). And, yes, you guessed it, NO REFUND TO DATE.
However, finding your blog (via Google) made me feel a LOT less alone. I would still like to get at least a portion of the $10K back, but I am unclear on which direction to pursue (perhaps both of the following);
Is it best to just "get in line" with all those who wait for possible fantasy crumbs that fall from the Bankruptcy Table (as Daisy keeps saying), or
Should I pursue CP directly somehow (not sure how) since they are left holding the bag and are still a viable, asset holding entity (as Jacka-1 keeps affirming)?
It's really late, my brain is fuzzy, and I still need to set up my blog account. So, hope this is still an ongoing discussion with some hope of resolution.
Moses-n-Mary,
Since the termination of the civil suit in Colorado I have not been keeping up on the situation. The suit was stopped because CP was forced into bankruptcy. As such, if you are still waiting for a refund I'm afraid it's not likely to materialize.
Like I said, though, I haven't been paying close attention these past few months, so perhaps there is still some cause for hope. I certainly wish for you and everyone else harmed by these fraudsters to get what you are due.
Smith & Merritt is being prosecuted by the State of Utah. Download the form from the state website to join the case.
Thanks, fluce!
This was found on the web page for the Utah Division of Consumer Protection:
Attn: Consumers who wish to file a claim against Smith and Merritt Institute
Acentus Consulting Group, LLC and College Partnership Inc., have been forced into involuntary bankruptcy through the federal bankruptcy court in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Acentus was the company that made all sales of Smith and Merritt Institute products. College Partnership Inc bought out Acentus and Smith and Merritt in December 2006.
Any consumer who was promised a refund by Smith and Merritt Institute and did not receive it, or who feels they are owed a refund for a canceled coaching program, may file a claim with the bankruptcy court and may be able to recover a portion of those losses if assets are located and taken by the bankruptcy trustee.
To file a claim, go on the Internet to www.utb.uscourts.gov and place your cursor on the “forms” button. Two choices will appear below that button. Click on the “current forms” selection and a page of form listings will appear. Scroll down the page and look on the left column for Proof of Claims B10 (eff. 4-1-2007) and click on that form. The form will appear and can be printed out and then completed by you.
On the top of the form just put the word “Utah” on the line for District. On the second line write, “Acentus Consulting Group and College Partnership Inc”, on the Name of Debtor line. The bankruptcy case number is 07-23465GEC. Then complete the rest of the form as appropriate. Mail the forms to:
Frank E Moss Courthouse
350 South Main St. #310
Salt Lake City UT 84101
Should you have any questions about the bankruptcy or forms, call the court directly at 801-524-6687.
At this point there is no guarantee of what funds may be recovered to be shared among all creditors. The investigation into the companies by this Division is continuing and all effort is being made to resolve consumer complaints.
Well, seems the comments have died down...
So far, NO ONE HAS GOTTEN ANY MONEY BACK. Why?. Because most of these writers kept pointing everyone to S&M or D&K - both of which are BROKE. Has ANYONE gotten even a hint that they MAY get something?
Meanwhile, CP is STILL in business, STILL doing their seminars around the country each week...bringing in $300,000 to $500,00 per week. That's a lot of cash flow!
And, yes, I heard from others (that are in the "know") that the owners are crooked, and they "take" as much out of the company as possible each week,to make it appear as though they do not make a profit, but even companies that are in negative cash flow can be held responsible.
If you want your money back, go after CP!
I am also a Former employee, I started in the very begining. They only had half the top floor, the space was empty with a few cubicles. I started on Dan's team. I remember the money, they had their top team lead who was making 6 figures and he was only 21. I was 18 and did very well for the time I was there, I personally had lunch with Dan Smith and Kathy Merritt as a reward for hard work they would bring the top sales people to fancy resturants in downtown salt lake. I made $1,800 my first two weeks there and then I started realizing the business wasnt what I thought it was. Mandatory meetings and hours were required from some team leads of 8-8, with no hourly pay, We were supose to be contracted workers not unpaid employees. Everyone was so desperate to make money, spending hours calling trying to make money to basically survive the guy behind me was homeless. I was offered another job and was happy to leave. (as a note we used John Cummuta Leads )
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